If someone came to you and tried to sell you a new MINI and told you it was re-VIN’d would you buy it? If so, that makes you an accessory to a federal crime and as Bill said is an admission of guilt and makes you a part of the problem if it becomes an acceptable trend. Same with any other car, Porsche, Nissan, Honda, whatever. Saying re-VIN is acceptable for the Mini is irresponsible and buying and selling them knowing they are illegal is criminal, bottom line.

Let me be very clear, I am talking about taking the VIN off one vehicle and putting it on another with the intent of changing the newer cars’s identity. Selling cars that are obviously SP and MP Minis as something they are not. Illegal cars in this country. If people were going to the junkyard taking VINs off 1967 Minis and putting them on 1967 Minis we would be hard pressed to prove any foul play and would go under the radar pretty easily. Or if one was stolen off your car and you have the title and you replace it, so what, you are trying to maintain the integrity of the car. You remove it to paint, and put it back without altering it, that’s not the problem at all (still against the law in many states if not all). Norm, if you are trying to give the car it’s original numbers re-creating a VIN, I don’t think anyone has issue with that, so making a VIN using the chassis number, and a good investigative process to establish the true VIN for a car is protecting the car not destroying it and your not trying to make it something it is not. Now if you make a works Mini or a Cooper S out of it and create a VIN to get more money for it, then that’s where I would think the line is. I am not advocating that this should be done on any level, but who is to stop you and why should they. It can be titled as a kit car legally no matter what, and if you have a good detailed history of the build, I don’t see why the title would effect the value of the car, same with a salvage title, so what! If I find a salvage Shelby Mustang, and rebuild it from the ground up and show what I have done, then the value comes in its history and the parts used to restore it.

Anyways, I am sorry if you felt attacked Stratsman, I know saying it wasn’t about you sounded harsh, but these are forums seen all over the world by new enthusiasts looking for answers more than just a place to hang out as a family. Don’t get me wrong, it is awesome and expected and has been so for almost 50 years that people with these cars are immediately part of a unique family and feel it the moment they drive one of our precious cars. The fact that the same has happened for the BMW MINI is a testament to the Mini/MINI <

If I am brand new to the idea of buying a Mini, a law abiding, tax paying citizen, and went to eBay or the cars for sale at MM boards and knew no better (and how would I if no one is willing to talk about it), I would buy the nicest one I could find, and if it is sold as a 1970 and I buy it without knowing that it is re-Vin’d I could lose 10k+ investment and go to jail, I would appreciate someone telling me that there is fraud being perpetrated in the community and to beware of the spec, Spi and Mpi Mini. Is it easier for me to shut up, of course, make me more popular, maybe. But you asked why this is such a passion for me and what makes it so I cant sleep at night? Would you want your son, daughter, father, mother to buy a new car just to be arrested, their car crushed and their hard earned money gone, I think not, and if you do and don’t care, well I consider those that get so mad at me those that dont, so to be honest I don’t care what name is leveled at me, I don’t have time to even respond to those individuals. Stratsman, I see you are level headed and trying to help calm the emotions, and it is very much appreciated. I have been calm, collected, and respectful to those who disagree. If reading any thread I start is a waste of time though, if you see my name next to it, I would encourage anyone not to read it and to keep their foul responses to themselves.

I lose no sleep over it that’s for sure. I have previously tried to get it through people’s heads that if this trend continues it will ultimately destroy the finite number of Minis left on this planet. The people who do this have absolutely no regard for the car, its heritage or it’s value (and I am not talking about money). It is by far one of the most unique and most influential vehicles ever to grace this planet. It is our duty to protect it and to pass it along to our children and grandchildren. Most people only think of one car, theirs, and not the big picture. It is not unreasonable, under current law to buy legal or not at all. As cool as it is to drive a SPI or MPI it is not worth destroying its VIN to accommodate our self indulgence.

Just as much as it upsets people that I bring light to this “trend” it upsets me and many others that their arrogance to thumb their nose at those willing to abide by the law, no matter how stupid the laws might be.

My opinions are mine and can be mine alone, if no one has any more regard for the car that’s fine. I am not looking to snitch anyone out, as a matter of fact some folks that have newer cars are great people, I would hate that their decisions to ignore laws would get them into trouble, but that’s their call not mine. I didn’t convince them or tell them or sell them what they have.

How can anyone get irritated with me by doing what’s right, by exposing 1000’s of cars that are being destroyed. A re-VIN car is nothing more than a junkyard car being driven or displayed. It is valueless except to those who chose to have them. When they come of age and are legal their value will plummet making them obsolete. It is a huge black eye to the cars creator and I can imagine that Sir Alec would roll over in his grave if he thought that his creation was being raped of it’s history.

Whatever, people who have them enjoy the heck out of them, drive them into the dirt, but every single one that is on eBay or a car bulletin board for sale is one more trying to sell their own mistakes and trying to convince everyone of something it is not and is a crime of the lowest caliber.

I guess I am putting the car before people and I do that mostly because the car will outlast them leaving a piece of junk to those who these are left to. It is unfair to the future and to my children and to yours. Every Mini in the world will be legal in this country in 2025. 17 years of patience is not a lot to ask to save 10’s of thousands of cars. But as I can see it is like beating my head against the wall to change anyone’s view so instead of changing anyone’s mind that have them now, I will keep the pressure on so that anyone looking to buy a Mini in the future knows the repercussions of buying an illegal car. It is a very serious issue and I hear the victimless crime argument, that does not fly. It is not hard to believe that stolen vehicles are entering into this country under the guise of the US population wanting new classics. People are getting hurt let alone the cars.

I have had two classic cars stolen, a 64 Chevrolet Impala SS and a Vintage 60 VW both mint, re-VINed and in Mexico as far as law enforcement can determine due to the fact they were stolen in San Diego. It is not a victimless crime and people and insurance companies are losing millions of dollars a year. The thing that makes the Mini unique over the SS or VW is they all look the same and it is easier to hide these vehicles.

As I said, whatever, if people are comfortable driving their cars that have no history and enjoy driving a car that could have been someone else’s pride and joy, that’s their call, I am not their judge. I am not here to judge anyone, but the “trend” is out of control and no one cares, so that makes it all ok in most people’s eyes.

The most disturbing thing in all of this are those of us who have been involved in these cars for decades not willing to wait a few more years to own their legal SPI and MPI Minis or chose to look the other way when people try to sell them. Dealers and individuals who started out with the right heart, but somewhere down the line was moved to break the law and refuse to change to protect the integrety of the Mini and it’s community.

Hate me if you want, call me names, threaten me and my family (which has already been done), threaten my legal classic I have owned 36 years, but lets be real, the only person at fault are those who either buy one, import one, or try to sell one to people who don’t know better. I agree wholeheartedly with Norm that you need to investigate and know exactly what you are buying. At the same time you need to know the law, and what the repercussions are to breaking them. Who is to blame, only those involved in this “trend”, not me and surely not the officials that uphold the law.

Change the laws, I am all for it. The more Mini’s the better! I would love the opportunity to drive a legal 2000 MPI Mini tomorrow. But until then I will raise my voice against Re-VINing and destroying cars just to appease our self indulgence. There are more than enough legal Minis here and in the UK to support our desire to drive a classic Mini. God knows I know the joy of it and would not deny anyone that opportunity, I just don’t get why anyone would risk it all.

If you suspect fraud or see cars illegal in the US here are a few links to you can report this.

The Department of Justice << This is a good place to start. If enough people make a noise we can curtail this criminal activity.

National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration << These folks police VIN theft and parts theft. Another great resource with articles pertaining to this subject.

Department of Transportation << This agency oversees many other state and local transportation offices.

US Department of Homeland Security - US Customs << This is where it all begins and ends. A fantastic resource and a group very interested in securing our borders from illegal people and goods entering our country.

And if you suspect someone locally you can start with your local police department and Department of Motor Vehicles. At least put your complaint here, their hands are tied to a certain degree, but if it is followed up with DOJ or DHS when the federal authorities get involved the local yokels wont be in the dark. I suggest covering all your bases, and expect some confusion. Don’t give up! Only you can stop this, even if it is one car at a time. It is time to STOP looking the other way. If it was your identity that was stolen you wouldn’t think twice about perusing all avenues to reclaim what it rightfully yours. If you reclaim the identity of one of these vehicles, you can help reunite stolen cars with their rightful owners, and stop the criminal element trying to make a quick buck on the backs of ignorant buyers.

Customs agents, Department of Motor Vehicles, Department of Homeland Security and local law enforcement need an education as to what is legal and what is illegal and how to tell the difference. It is truly a shame that many individuals blindsided by this illegal act has put a huge number of illegal cars in the driveways and garages of mostly law abiding citizens and businesses. Pressure needs to be put on the agencies involved in letting these cars in and to the individuals that know what they have to export them immediately.

I read a lot of posts about SPI and MPI Minis in this country having problems with breathing. Maybe they need special filters in this country so they can turn illegal air into legal air:) Just like their owners they will breath a lot better when these cars are in their right environment.

Detroit - Sept. 4, 2008

Found this article and thought what an idiot! Doh!

I wonder how he knew where to find the title in the house?

On any given day you can go to eBay and find UK and Japanese exporter as well as American Importers selling illegal cars. The Mini is amongst the cars that are being retitled and “re-stamped”, which means newer cars are being re-VINed and sold to the unexpecting and novice new Mini owner. There are subtle wording that experienced Mini owners know well and will buy these cares knowing very well what they are buying. To export, import or to own one of these newer re-VINed vehicles is a felony federal offense and is subject to having cars crushed, owners, importers and exporters jailed. eBay chooses to ignore this issue probably due to money, it is a huge organized effort from everyone involved and those who chose to look the other way that it has somehow become an acceptable practice. How would you like it if your prize Mini was stolen, re-VINed and exported out of the country, some poor unsuspecting buyer really wanting a Mini buys yours, just because no one cared. I would never feel right driving a car that potentially was someone else’s pride and joy ripped out of their hands and out of their country. It is appalling to me and a stain on the entire Mini culture that people chose to look the other way, from the exporter who knows damn well what he is doing, to the dealer in the US that knows damn well what he is getting, then to sell it as something it is not, or describing the vehicle in a code that experienced buyers recognize and buys one of these illegal cars. Where is the integrity? Where is the conscience? Re-VIN drivers have none.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand better than anyone the desire to drive a Mini, but there are plenty of legal Minis in the US for sale, plus there are a ton of legal Minis in the UK for export. There is absolutely no reason to buy, sell or own an illegal Mini or any other car. Every time you put your family in a car that is illegal in the US you are risking everything. Is it really worth it? Beside the fact of what you do to the heritage and integrity of the car, which is why I am so passionate, the fact that it is a felony should be enough to dissuade people from driving or owning this bastard car that should not be in this country. If you cant wait till 2025 to legally own a 2000 MPI Mini, MOVE TO THE UK! Stupidity to the core with no hope for redemption.

ReVIN - The altering of a vehicle to either hide it’s real identity for a variety of reasons.

1. Covering up a theft
2. Covering up an accident or flood.
3. Changing the VIN for export to another country that doesn’t allow imports past a certain age.

All which in this country is a Federal (felony) offense and any car caught can be smashed and importers, exporters and new owners are subject to jail and stiff fines. Needless to say ReVIN vehicles are not worth the risk or the effort.

Anyone wanting to read the Importation of Motor Vehicles and Motor Vehicle Equipment Subject to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety, Bumper and Theft Prevention Standards here is a link to the PDF.

Declaration of Import

What a great story and because of his voice and the Internet, the car this man beloved, became part of, and spent his life with, is back with it’s rightful owner. Without his determination this car would have been lost to a paint shop, a chop shop or the shores of the UK re-vined and set for export to a number of shores. Australia, Japan, Hong Kong, Italy and the United States. Truly anyone who loses a car should speak out to keep the pressure on those who come in contact with Minis to determine with these folks not to ever buy something that has been altered with no way of knowing the heritage of a vehicle.