[10802 CVC. Any person who knowingly alters, counterfeits, defaces, destroys, disguises, falsifies, forges, obliterates, or removes vehicle identification numbers, with the intent to misrepresent the identity or prevent the identification of motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts, for the purpose of sale, transfer, import, or export, is guilty of a public offense and, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months, or two or three years, or by a fine of not more than twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, or by up to one year in the county jail, or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.]

There is no such thing as a re-bodied or revin in California. I have never heard of such a thing in ten years working auto theft, until I read about them on the forums. It’s either a VIN switch, in which many of my cases suspects replace the VIN in attempts to hide he identity of a stolen vehicle. In the classic car business it appears it’s to bypass California smog emission or EPA 25 year rule.

The VIN is attached by the manufacture, the MSO “Birth Certificate” to the vehicle. In California it’s ilegal to remove the VIN attached by the manufacture, even though you outright own the vehicle.

My partner of few years back crushed a few minis and notified custom officials to be on the look out, but he since has retired. At the port, Custom will impound it, sell it at auction, or order it exported it out of the country. Auto theft detectives, especially task force detectives that specialize in classics will have them crushed. But every case is different. If you buy a car, and was lied to, your not legally liable, but u will lose the car.

Then you would go after the seller, and that’s if he knew the car he sold had been tampered.

Here’s a perfect example:

[1965 MORRIS COOPER S British Racing Green, Green Plaid interior, completely restored engine chassis trans, interior. 1300cc engine with fuel injection and roller cam. 90 hp, very fast. Perfect interior with light Green Plaid seats and Light Green carpet. British Racing green exterior with Cooper S badges. Minilite style wheels with very low profile tires. Adjustable cambers all round with performance shocks, not hydrolastic. Wind down front windows and premium stereo AM/FM/CD. Alarm and security start lockout system. Wood grain dash with tach, temp, volts, clock.]

It’s not fair to the buyer, that pays big money, with no knowledge on these types of cars,but always wanted an early Cooper S mini, or it’s bought as a gift, to find out later it’s a newer vehicle that’s been re-badged or re-vined.

Since it appears it widespread and acceptable to tamper with vehicle VIN’s, I will start to focus more investigation into these crimes. If anybody has any information, please contact my office. If you’re in a different state then California, I can send the information to an auto theft detective in your area.

Detective George Molina

Office:(818) 830-6977

Email: gmolina@lasd.org

Los Angeles County-T.R.A.P.

Task Force for Regional Auto Theft Prevention.

If someone came to you and tried to sell you a new MINI and told you it was re-VIN’d would you buy it? If so, that makes you an accessory to a federal crime and as Bill said is an admission of guilt and makes you a part of the problem if it becomes an acceptable trend. Same with any other car, Porsche, Nissan, Honda, whatever. Saying re-VIN is acceptable for the Mini is irresponsible and buying and selling them knowing they are illegal is criminal, bottom line.

Let me be very clear, I am talking about taking the VIN off one vehicle and putting it on another with the intent of changing the newer cars’s identity. Selling cars that are obviously SP and MP Minis as something they are not. Illegal cars in this country. If people were going to the junkyard taking VINs off 1967 Minis and putting them on 1967 Minis we would be hard pressed to prove any foul play and would go under the radar pretty easily. Or if one was stolen off your car and you have the title and you replace it, so what, you are trying to maintain the integrity of the car. You remove it to paint, and put it back without altering it, that’s not the problem at all (still against the law in many states if not all). Norm, if you are trying to give the car it’s original numbers re-creating a VIN, I don’t think anyone has issue with that, so making a VIN using the chassis number, and a good investigative process to establish the true VIN for a car is protecting the car not destroying it and your not trying to make it something it is not. Now if you make a works Mini or a Cooper S out of it and create a VIN to get more money for it, then that’s where I would think the line is. I am not advocating that this should be done on any level, but who is to stop you and why should they. It can be titled as a kit car legally no matter what, and if you have a good detailed history of the build, I don’t see why the title would effect the value of the car, same with a salvage title, so what! If I find a salvage Shelby Mustang, and rebuild it from the ground up and show what I have done, then the value comes in its history and the parts used to restore it.

Anyways, I am sorry if you felt attacked Stratsman, I know saying it wasn’t about you sounded harsh, but these are forums seen all over the world by new enthusiasts looking for answers more than just a place to hang out as a family. Don’t get me wrong, it is awesome and expected and has been so for almost 50 years that people with these cars are immediately part of a unique family and feel it the moment they drive one of our precious cars. The fact that the same has happened for the BMW MINI is a testament to the Mini/MINI <

If I am brand new to the idea of buying a Mini, a law abiding, tax paying citizen, and went to eBay or the cars for sale at MM boards and knew no better (and how would I if no one is willing to talk about it), I would buy the nicest one I could find, and if it is sold as a 1970 and I buy it without knowing that it is re-Vin’d I could lose 10k+ investment and go to jail, I would appreciate someone telling me that there is fraud being perpetrated in the community and to beware of the spec, Spi and Mpi Mini. Is it easier for me to shut up, of course, make me more popular, maybe. But you asked why this is such a passion for me and what makes it so I cant sleep at night? Would you want your son, daughter, father, mother to buy a new car just to be arrested, their car crushed and their hard earned money gone, I think not, and if you do and don’t care, well I consider those that get so mad at me those that dont, so to be honest I don’t care what name is leveled at me, I don’t have time to even respond to those individuals. Stratsman, I see you are level headed and trying to help calm the emotions, and it is very much appreciated. I have been calm, collected, and respectful to those who disagree. If reading any thread I start is a waste of time though, if you see my name next to it, I would encourage anyone not to read it and to keep their foul responses to themselves.

I lose no sleep over it that’s for sure. I have previously tried to get it through people’s heads that if this trend continues it will ultimately destroy the finite number of Minis left on this planet. The people who do this have absolutely no regard for the car, its heritage or it’s value (and I am not talking about money). It is by far one of the most unique and most influential vehicles ever to grace this planet. It is our duty to protect it and to pass it along to our children and grandchildren. Most people only think of one car, theirs, and not the big picture. It is not unreasonable, under current law to buy legal or not at all. As cool as it is to drive a SPI or MPI it is not worth destroying its VIN to accommodate our self indulgence.

Just as much as it upsets people that I bring light to this “trend” it upsets me and many others that their arrogance to thumb their nose at those willing to abide by the law, no matter how stupid the laws might be.

My opinions are mine and can be mine alone, if no one has any more regard for the car that’s fine. I am not looking to snitch anyone out, as a matter of fact some folks that have newer cars are great people, I would hate that their decisions to ignore laws would get them into trouble, but that’s their call not mine. I didn’t convince them or tell them or sell them what they have.

How can anyone get irritated with me by doing what’s right, by exposing 1000’s of cars that are being destroyed. A re-VIN car is nothing more than a junkyard car being driven or displayed. It is valueless except to those who chose to have them. When they come of age and are legal their value will plummet making them obsolete. It is a huge black eye to the cars creator and I can imagine that Sir Alec would roll over in his grave if he thought that his creation was being raped of it’s history.

Whatever, people who have them enjoy the heck out of them, drive them into the dirt, but every single one that is on eBay or a car bulletin board for sale is one more trying to sell their own mistakes and trying to convince everyone of something it is not and is a crime of the lowest caliber.

I guess I am putting the car before people and I do that mostly because the car will outlast them leaving a piece of junk to those who these are left to. It is unfair to the future and to my children and to yours. Every Mini in the world will be legal in this country in 2025. 17 years of patience is not a lot to ask to save 10’s of thousands of cars. But as I can see it is like beating my head against the wall to change anyone’s view so instead of changing anyone’s mind that have them now, I will keep the pressure on so that anyone looking to buy a Mini in the future knows the repercussions of buying an illegal car. It is a very serious issue and I hear the victimless crime argument, that does not fly. It is not hard to believe that stolen vehicles are entering into this country under the guise of the US population wanting new classics. People are getting hurt let alone the cars.

I have had two classic cars stolen, a 64 Chevrolet Impala SS and a Vintage 60 VW both mint, re-VINed and in Mexico as far as law enforcement can determine due to the fact they were stolen in San Diego. It is not a victimless crime and people and insurance companies are losing millions of dollars a year. The thing that makes the Mini unique over the SS or VW is they all look the same and it is easier to hide these vehicles.

As I said, whatever, if people are comfortable driving their cars that have no history and enjoy driving a car that could have been someone else’s pride and joy, that’s their call, I am not their judge. I am not here to judge anyone, but the “trend” is out of control and no one cares, so that makes it all ok in most people’s eyes.

The most disturbing thing in all of this are those of us who have been involved in these cars for decades not willing to wait a few more years to own their legal SPI and MPI Minis or chose to look the other way when people try to sell them. Dealers and individuals who started out with the right heart, but somewhere down the line was moved to break the law and refuse to change to protect the integrety of the Mini and it’s community.

Hate me if you want, call me names, threaten me and my family (which has already been done), threaten my legal classic I have owned 36 years, but lets be real, the only person at fault are those who either buy one, import one, or try to sell one to people who don’t know better. I agree wholeheartedly with Norm that you need to investigate and know exactly what you are buying. At the same time you need to know the law, and what the repercussions are to breaking them. Who is to blame, only those involved in this “trend”, not me and surely not the officials that uphold the law.

Change the laws, I am all for it. The more Mini’s the better! I would love the opportunity to drive a legal 2000 MPI Mini tomorrow. But until then I will raise my voice against Re-VINing and destroying cars just to appease our self indulgence. There are more than enough legal Minis here and in the UK to support our desire to drive a classic Mini. God knows I know the joy of it and would not deny anyone that opportunity, I just don’t get why anyone would risk it all.

Customs agents, Department of Motor Vehicles, Department of Homeland Security and local law enforcement need an education as to what is legal and what is illegal and how to tell the difference. It is truly a shame that many individuals blindsided by this illegal act has put a huge number of illegal cars in the driveways and garages of mostly law abiding citizens and businesses. Pressure needs to be put on the agencies involved in letting these cars in and to the individuals that know what they have to export them immediately.

I read a lot of posts about SPI and MPI Minis in this country having problems with breathing. Maybe they need special filters in this country so they can turn illegal air into legal air:) Just like their owners they will breath a lot better when these cars are in their right environment.

Detroit - Sept. 4, 2008

Found this article and thought what an idiot! Doh!

I wonder how he knew where to find the title in the house?

ReVIN - The altering of a vehicle to either hide it’s real identity for a variety of reasons.

1. Covering up a theft
2. Covering up an accident or flood.
3. Changing the VIN for export to another country that doesn’t allow imports past a certain age.

All which in this country is a Federal (felony) offense and any car caught can be smashed and importers, exporters and new owners are subject to jail and stiff fines. Needless to say ReVIN vehicles are not worth the risk or the effort.

Anyone wanting to read the Importation of Motor Vehicles and Motor Vehicle Equipment Subject to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety, Bumper and Theft Prevention Standards here is a link to the PDF.

Declaration of Import

What a great story and because of his voice and the Internet, the car this man beloved, became part of, and spent his life with, is back with it’s rightful owner. Without his determination this car would have been lost to a paint shop, a chop shop or the shores of the UK re-vined and set for export to a number of shores. Australia, Japan, Hong Kong, Italy and the United States. Truly anyone who loses a car should speak out to keep the pressure on those who come in contact with Minis to determine with these folks not to ever buy something that has been altered with no way of knowing the heritage of a vehicle.

Hello my name is Dale I have a 1960 Morris Mini Minor 850 that I have owned since 13 yrs old. Over 30 yrs. I will share with you one of many exciting stories that me and my mini have shared.

Where to start. I had just painted and completely restored my mini, put in a fresh 1098 engine in and took off the second day after the engine rebuild. I got 30 miles and a bolt that had not been tightened, in all the excitement of getting it ready in a hurry, came off the generator and went through the radiator. Had to tow it home throw in a new radiator and off again! The next event happened since I was going to add the sliding windows to the doors after I got there. I had planned on buying the channels when I got there. Big mistake. It was so cold I had to wear a blanket around my neck. I lost my generator the first night, so night driving was now out of the question. A nice man going to the meet himself stopped to try and help but to no avail. I had a car cover with me so at night I would put the cover on and sleep in the car. (I was on a tight budget). The police stopped one morning along the road where I had my car covered woke me up and told me to get on my way. Driving through the mountains were a challenge. Air in the brakes were starting to take its toll and I had to use the emergency most of the way. Ok, I got there, the first night was eventful as well. I went out to test a new alternator that someone donated to my sorry cause. It was dark, and the car was starting to overheat, windows still out I still had a blanket wrapped around my neck. I got out of the car, lifted the bonnet and leaned over the engine. Sheesh if the fan didn’t catch the blanket and start wrapping up around it, drawing me into the engine. With both arms I wrapped them around the blanket and pulled as hard as I could in panic. Needless to say it drew the fan backward and snapped the fan belt. If it wasn’t overheating before it was now. Crippled I nudged it back to the hotel lot where all the cars were. Went to the campground where I was staying after letting it cool down, covered the car and pitched my tent about 40 yards from the car. When I woke up the next morning I pulled the cover off to find that someone had taken a baseball bat to my windshield. What a mess! A nice gentleman from the Denver area just happened to have a new windscreen in his garage. I had to have my dad wire me money to pay for it.  OK, new windscreen, new alternator, got my channels for my windows, and all was well.. so I thought. Several people tried everything in the book to help me bleed my brakes. This was the day we all rallied up the tallest mountain that is drivable in the US. Not a place to take a mini with no brakes. But dummy me did it anyways. The guy that road with me to the top did not come down with me. At one of the switchbacks at the top, full of snow, Dale stuffs the front end of his mini, to the windscreen, in a snow bank. You should have seen the guy next to me I thought his feet were going through the floorboards. I guess this is why he didn’t go back down with me
Someone was nice enough to let me go behind him just in case I needed a bumperstop The sides of the mountain were 13,000 ft straight down. The Billy goats would fly past us and down the sides like nobodies business. You could only fit one car at a time on the road, it was so narrow. About 2 miles down we ran into a stag ram (yes a real big overgrown goat!) You need to understand my car was freshly painted fire engine red, just what a charging animal needed to see coming at him. I managed to stop a few feet in front of him, he stood head and shoulders over the car as you can imagine and he walked up between me and the mountain. We were getting along OK until he put his big ol head down and acted like he didn’t want to share his mountain anymore. I left in a hurry. Needless to say I made it down the mountain and have many more stories to come.. Hope you enjoyed this story, more to come!

Dale